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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 74

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for the 19th of march richard saunders

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here with you once again on today's

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episode we have an interview with stuart

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gough

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from redeemer baptist school

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he's a science teacher now redeemer

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baptist school based here in sydney do

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very well each year in the young

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scientist awards

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very well

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so we sent along our reporter iran segev

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to ask stewart

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why they do so well i think you'll find

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this interview very interesting

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following that we have another blast

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from the past with myself and dr paul

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willis appearing of stephen soyker on

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net fm

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in 2001

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and uh paul being a paleontologist the

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topic of discussion was

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creationism now thank you very much to

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all those people who wrote to me and

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told me

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what they do while they're listening to

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the skeptic zone last week i posed the

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question in the think tank i wonder what

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our listeners are doing

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i've discovered people do the garden or

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they walk their dog or they take a long

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walk to the end of the street and back

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some people drive some people are in the

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gym but thank you everybody for letting

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me know i i really enjoy hearing about

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what the listeners are up to

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so

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i hope you

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carry on doing all those wonderful

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things while you listen to this episode

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i'm here at redeemer baptist school in

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north parramatta with

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who's the head teacher of science

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no i'm just one of the class teachers of

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science okay we have is there a head

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teacher for science we do have a head

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teacher science we have a number of

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staff members who have been in our

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schools for over 20 years

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so the head teachers been here for about

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28 years or since the school started

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i've been here for this is my 25th year

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so i'm still one of the junior members

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of the sciences faculty

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we're walking around the campus here

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it's a beautiful campus very large now

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obviously the reason that we

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we met at the um

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science teachers science teachers

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association in new south wales event

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where the young scientist of the year

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awards

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and um and the reason we met there was

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because

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redeemer baptist school traditionally

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does very well

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in those

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events can you tell us a little bit

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about that well in terms of statistics

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we have been entering young scientists

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uh since 1987 was our first entry that

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was actually called the science talent

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search back then

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and we would have uh

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had a number of good results in those

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days mainly with video projects as a

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science teacher

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i

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you had to get these reels from the

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state library sent by train um to the

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school and it was and put on the big

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film projectors and so and at that time

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the video vhs was just coming in so i

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had a video camera so

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i decided to make a lot of videos and

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get students to make videos

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which related to the content we were

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doing

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and we entered those into the original

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science talent search we got a first

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place one year a second and third the

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following year

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we then had a bit of a break because the

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competition started to change and in

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1992 is when the young scientist

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uh

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the the scientists association

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re-molded the competition called it the

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young scientist awards

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and since that time uh we have won i

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think it's 213 state awards in the young

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science competition we usually get about

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10 to 15 per year and we're easily

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uh have more awards than any other

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school

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in that in those competitions

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and you also uh your students also

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participate in the bhp bulletin

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competition yeah well the what happens

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is the best students from the young

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scientists get selected to go to the

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national bhp awards

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and so this year we would have had two

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of the 16 australian finals with from

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our school

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and we have gone very well again at the

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bhp science awards

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they have been going for 25 years or so

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now

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we've had more

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finalists than any other school in

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australia

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and more winning entries in that as well

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and i just want to point out that we

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just went past

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a window and we and there were there was

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a huge big skeleton in there it's a

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large whale bone

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we would have we have a school camp down

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the south coast

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and there was a whale that had been

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um

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you know washed up on the beach on the

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rocks for many years and once you start

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decompose we

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took samples of the that's the hip joint

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by the yeah where the fin goes into the

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whale through the backbone

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and uh yeah we've got a couple of

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specimens we brought back it took a few

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months and years to remove the smell we

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left it outside let the ants eat it away

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but now it's um and it's now inside it's

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now inside

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kids love

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love that absolutely

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kids love the hands-on as you know

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and actually getting specimens live

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specimens in the class

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attracts students straight away

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so obviously there is

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there's obviously a lot of information

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or a lot of knowledge that's being

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transferred to the children while

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they're here while they're doing their

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science lessons how much focus is there

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on methodology on on the science as a

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not as a process rather than as a body

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of knowledge

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well the science curriculum in new south

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wales

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does like to give a a very good balance

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on process and skills

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with knowledge so just

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just to do the curriculum we do would do

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a 50 50 split between the knowledge

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and the process

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however

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i try to increase the process

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and skill side by getting students

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involved in these

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exterior competitions

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such as the young scientists

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because they learn and take away skills

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the rest of their life they'll never

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forget

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so we're just coming up now to

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my main display

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students when they

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when we say let's do a science project

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don't know where to start

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and that is the biggest problem with uh

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most

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schools in new south wales and australia

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face

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all students have to do a compulsory

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uh student research project they have to

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do one in year seven and eight

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one in year nine and ten

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and if you're a senior student you also

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have to do an independent research

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project

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but the thing is you can't just say give

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them a brochure and say this is what you

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have to do

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they need

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to start where to get ideas from and

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what makes our program unique

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is that we have introduced a program

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called the inspire program it's an

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acronym

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inspire stands for informing and

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nurturing science projects that are

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innovative rewarding and enjoyable

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the most important part of that is the

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informing stage

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kids

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just just don't know where to start

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so and really they don't know how to

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write a project up and what's what's

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needed to do a good project

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so we have developed over the years

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collected a lot of resources i have a

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lot of video and dvd resources

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so i can actually show

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videos of kids of

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i can go to like a kindergarten class

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and i have videos of kindergarten level

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projects where students are talking

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about their project

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so what in what year does that start in

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our inspire program is from utah from

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kindergarten right through the year 12.

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it's a whole school program

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i will elaborate more some years it's

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more compulsory than others

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like for instance we have maker

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compulsory in year five through the year

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10

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every second year

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the

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science curriculum in new south wales

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you have to do a project every two years

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okay and so we generally have a year on

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and year off

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although can i say the year off year is

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still

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very busy this is our year off year

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that's for projects there's lots of

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projects

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that's where they have to officially do

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a project

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and

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i still have even though it's it's a

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optional year i still have

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at least 15 projects going on at the

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moment i know of kids are started right

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down those younger years

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we also have a number of our top level

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projects who have firstly won the

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science teachers young science awards

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probably gone well and won at bhp

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they're also represented australia at

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the inter intel international science

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and engineering fair

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where it's 1 500 students from around

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the world and australia this year is

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sending four students

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and we have two of those students going

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now the idea the good thing about this

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is we can now use those displays

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when they come back to australia as

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displays for other kids to see what to

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do of course and we have two displays

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here can you maybe describe one of them

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okay

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i'll

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have a display here which which was a

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which was the actually one the team

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display competition they won a thousand

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us dollars for the best

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display

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it was a project that looked at um

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upon the color blindness

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and

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they came up with a

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a optical device that you

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that tells you the color of an object so

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you put it on your shirt and it'll give

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you that color there's 729 colors

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programmed excellent so it's called a

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used red

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green and blue light it's called a tri

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tri-stimulus colorimeter

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and but it did something which is you

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can get those sort of things now on the

289
00:11:10,470 --> 00:11:06,720
market but what

290
00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:13,269
had a memory and it remembered one color

291
00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:14,800
and then you put it on the adjacent

292
00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:16,800
color and it then can tell you the

293
00:11:21,670 --> 00:11:18,640
difference in luminosity the luminance

294
00:11:23,670 --> 00:11:21,680
contrast between the two surfaces

295
00:11:26,230 --> 00:11:23,680
which is really important because in the

296
00:11:28,790 --> 00:11:26,240
building industry

297
00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:28,800
if you go near a train platform you'll

298
00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:30,800
have those tactile indicators which are

299
00:11:36,870 --> 00:11:33,600
the yellow strips or blue strips

300
00:11:37,670 --> 00:11:36,880
and they have to meet a color contrast

301
00:11:39,430 --> 00:11:37,680
um

302
00:11:40,150 --> 00:11:39,440
so vision impaired people don't walk off

303
00:11:41,110 --> 00:11:40,160
the

304
00:11:42,389 --> 00:11:41,120
you know

305
00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:42,399
on the tracks

306
00:11:47,670 --> 00:11:44,560
buildings also all stairways must have

307
00:11:50,710 --> 00:11:47,680
those treads uh public thoroughfares and

308
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:50,720
so what they the problem is

309
00:11:54,550 --> 00:11:52,880
no one had actually designed a device to

310
00:11:56,389 --> 00:11:54,560
measure this aluminum contrast you must

311
00:11:58,310 --> 00:11:56,399
have a 30 percent

312
00:11:59,269 --> 00:11:58,320
contrast according to the australian

313
00:12:01,910 --> 00:11:59,279
standard

314
00:12:04,870 --> 00:12:01,920
so they build a device that actually

315
00:12:07,430 --> 00:12:04,880
um does that previously you'd have to

316
00:12:09,269 --> 00:12:07,440
get companies like csiro to come in and

317
00:12:10,629 --> 00:12:09,279
take your measurements and it'll cost

318
00:12:12,069 --> 00:12:10,639
you over a thousand dollars to get a

319
00:12:14,629 --> 00:12:12,079
report done

320
00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:14,639
now you just get their color illuminator

321
00:12:18,230 --> 00:12:17,040
put it on the two different um objects

322
00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:18,240
and

323
00:12:21,750 --> 00:12:19,600
instantly to give you the measurements

324
00:12:23,110 --> 00:12:21,760
it is quite amazing so high school high

325
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:23,120
school students they're high school

326
00:12:30,310 --> 00:12:27,839
students this has taken off in april

327
00:12:31,509 --> 00:12:30,320
an australian company called pathfinders

328
00:12:33,190 --> 00:12:31,519
has

329
00:12:34,949 --> 00:12:33,200
is manufacturing

330
00:12:35,829 --> 00:12:34,959
the color illuminator

331
00:12:37,670 --> 00:12:35,839
and

332
00:12:40,069 --> 00:12:37,680
it's having its official opening up at

333
00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:40,079
the end tweet heads in april

334
00:12:43,190 --> 00:12:41,760
uh not official opening the official

335
00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:43,200
launch yeah

336
00:12:46,870 --> 00:12:44,800
and

337
00:12:50,230 --> 00:12:46,880
yeah this is this is going to be nearly

338
00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:50,240
every building spectre every um

339
00:12:54,949 --> 00:12:52,800
every company that audits buildings

340
00:12:56,310 --> 00:12:54,959
architects will need to get a device

341
00:12:57,670 --> 00:12:56,320
such as this

342
00:13:00,069 --> 00:12:57,680
because they have to meet this train

343
00:13:02,389 --> 00:13:00,079
standard yeah but there's also if i may

344
00:13:04,550 --> 00:13:02,399
just uh point out something there's at

345
00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:04,560
the very center of the display

346
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:05,440
there's

347
00:13:09,829 --> 00:13:08,160
two pictures of of a pair of bananas

348
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:09,839
correct one shows them under normal

349
00:13:12,790 --> 00:13:11,040
vision where they're a little bit green

350
00:13:15,910 --> 00:13:12,800
you can tell that they're not ripe yet

351
00:13:17,829 --> 00:13:15,920
yes um the color blind according to the

352
00:13:21,350 --> 00:13:17,839
second picture shows them as bright

353
00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:21,360
yellow and ripe um i didn't actually

354
00:13:23,750 --> 00:13:22,480
know that

355
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:23,760
that would be the effect of color

356
00:13:27,350 --> 00:13:25,920
blindness i suppose that's blue that's

357
00:13:29,670 --> 00:13:27,360
the there's the red green color

358
00:13:32,550 --> 00:13:29,680
blindness which is the most common form

359
00:13:34,550 --> 00:13:32,560
yeah so and maps say

360
00:13:35,430 --> 00:13:34,560
topographical maps where they use colors

361
00:13:40,470 --> 00:13:35,440
to

362
00:13:42,230 --> 00:13:40,480
elevation they can't tell so for for

363
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:42,240
people with color blindness that that

364
00:13:45,990 --> 00:13:43,920
could be a huge help having that device

365
00:13:48,389 --> 00:13:46,000
around just being able to quickly

366
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:48,399
uh yeah you know just just just use it

367
00:13:52,870 --> 00:13:50,639
to test whatever it is and another thing

368
00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:52,880
but even people have normal vision it's

369
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:54,240
very hard in the morning when you get up

370
00:13:57,269 --> 00:13:55,519
for work and you've got to find your

371
00:13:59,350 --> 00:13:57,279
blue or your black trousers or your

372
00:14:00,870 --> 00:13:59,360
socks i mean it's very embarrassing

373
00:14:02,389 --> 00:14:00,880
going out with you think you've got your

374
00:14:03,750 --> 00:14:02,399
blue trousers on it's actually black

375
00:14:06,069 --> 00:14:03,760
because your light's not good enough

376
00:14:07,910 --> 00:14:06,079
whether you put this machine on your on

377
00:14:09,670 --> 00:14:07,920
your trousers and it'll tell you well i

378
00:14:11,590 --> 00:14:09,680
must tell you that fifty percent of our

379
00:14:13,350 --> 00:14:11,600
listeners the female ones have nice just

380
00:14:14,790 --> 00:14:13,360
rolled their eyes

381
00:14:16,230 --> 00:14:14,800
correct

382
00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:16,240
your husbands won't have the wrong ties

383
00:14:19,189 --> 00:14:17,680
hopefully they can actually see if their

384
00:14:21,110 --> 00:14:19,199
colors do match

385
00:14:22,310 --> 00:14:21,120
fast that is actually

386
00:14:24,230 --> 00:14:22,320
thinking that

387
00:14:25,829 --> 00:14:24,240
these are high school students have been

388
00:14:27,189 --> 00:14:25,839
able to do something like this not just

389
00:14:29,430 --> 00:14:27,199
in terms of the

390
00:14:30,949 --> 00:14:29,440
research and following methodology and

391
00:14:32,629 --> 00:14:30,959
passing the peer review but also

392
00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:32,639
actually getting it to the point where

393
00:14:36,389 --> 00:14:34,560
it's of international practical

394
00:14:39,430 --> 00:14:36,399
implications is is

395
00:14:41,509 --> 00:14:39,440
quite admirable okay so this actually is

396
00:14:43,670 --> 00:14:41,519
a good time to ask so

397
00:14:45,910 --> 00:14:43,680
what is it obviously i mean the results

398
00:14:48,150 --> 00:14:45,920
are there we know that redeemer baptist

399
00:14:50,470 --> 00:14:48,160
school does better than other schools

400
00:14:51,189 --> 00:14:50,480
um in science

401
00:14:53,189 --> 00:14:51,199
so

402
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:53,199
one thing is by

403
00:14:57,030 --> 00:14:55,199
ensuring that the methodology is right

404
00:14:59,189 --> 00:14:57,040
correct okay so that but that that can't

405
00:15:01,110 --> 00:14:59,199
be all the whole story it's got to be

406
00:15:03,590 --> 00:15:01,120
something else in terms of

407
00:15:06,150 --> 00:15:03,600
maybe the enthusiasm and

408
00:15:10,310 --> 00:15:06,160
can you can you tell me what you think

409
00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:10,320
you do that makes this happen okay

410
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:12,480
there's two levels of science projects

411
00:15:15,750 --> 00:15:14,079
you have those which get up to this

412
00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:15,760
international standard and then there's

413
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:17,920
just a science project in the classroom

414
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:19,920
so you get a class to work on a project

415
00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:22,000
i'll answer that question in two ways

416
00:15:25,509 --> 00:15:23,519
firstly for the science

417
00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:25,519
level the science class project let's

418
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:28,000
say you've got 20 kids in your class and

419
00:15:32,150 --> 00:15:30,079
we go to a science project we firstly

420
00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:32,160
try to do individual projects so kids

421
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:33,920
can choose topics that are interesting

422
00:15:38,069 --> 00:15:36,000
to them

423
00:15:39,750 --> 00:15:38,079
secondly

424
00:15:41,430 --> 00:15:39,760
we would have those

425
00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:41,440
examples to show them what a good

426
00:15:45,189 --> 00:15:43,040
project is

427
00:15:46,949 --> 00:15:45,199
but the probably the main thing that

428
00:15:50,069 --> 00:15:46,959
separates us from most other schools

429
00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:50,079
that i we try to get them to

430
00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:52,240
um get on an industry get into people

431
00:15:57,030 --> 00:15:55,440
who who are experts in the field

432
00:15:59,829 --> 00:15:57,040
and they have to do a huge literature

433
00:16:01,189 --> 00:15:59,839
research to start with i get i make sure

434
00:16:03,189 --> 00:16:01,199
as this when they come to me with an

435
00:16:05,350 --> 00:16:03,199
idea said i say okay has this been done

436
00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:05,360
before go and fight out

437
00:16:08,310 --> 00:16:06,880
and so they'll

438
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:08,320
look up first let's start with the

439
00:16:11,990 --> 00:16:10,320
internet have a look at that and then we

440
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:12,000
might look at journals

441
00:16:16,310 --> 00:16:13,600
and then if something's been done on

442
00:16:18,550 --> 00:16:16,320
that before we say okay well let's see

443
00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:18,560
ken is any kind of tangent you can go on

444
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:20,240
to

445
00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:25,040
people in industry like they need

446
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:27,040
assistance so they're doing something

447
00:16:30,550 --> 00:16:28,320
because most things most of these

448
00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:30,560
science projects are go beyond the realm

449
00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:33,519
of the cl of a normal classroom teacher

450
00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:34,720
um

451
00:16:39,269 --> 00:16:37,440
so so do you think it's the going out

452
00:16:40,949 --> 00:16:39,279
there in the field and talking to

453
00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:40,959
organizations and maybe making it

454
00:16:43,990 --> 00:16:42,480
something that is not just based in the

455
00:16:46,230 --> 00:16:44,000
school do you think that's that's the

456
00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:46,240
main thing okay yes for the higher level

457
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:47,600
projects

458
00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:49,600
within the school just over any general

459
00:16:53,509 --> 00:16:51,040
school if you just want to run science

460
00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:53,519
projects obviously you need to have a

461
00:16:57,509 --> 00:16:56,160
teacher who's enthusiastic

462
00:16:59,030 --> 00:16:57,519
and it's time

463
00:17:00,629 --> 00:16:59,040
so

464
00:17:02,550 --> 00:17:00,639
like for instance this morning i walked

465
00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:02,560
into the classroom i just wanted to walk

466
00:17:06,870 --> 00:17:04,720
through the class to get some things

467
00:17:08,390 --> 00:17:06,880
prepared for a lesson and three people

468
00:17:10,309 --> 00:17:08,400
stopped me because i wanted to ask about

469
00:17:11,829 --> 00:17:10,319
their project

470
00:17:13,110 --> 00:17:11,839
do you think this is a good idea and

471
00:17:15,110 --> 00:17:13,120
things like that

472
00:17:16,949 --> 00:17:15,120
and so you don't want to and some one of

473
00:17:18,630 --> 00:17:16,959
the projects was

474
00:17:20,549 --> 00:17:18,640
wasn't a good idea it was wanted to

475
00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:20,559
replace human blood into animal blood

476
00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:22,000
and see if you can the things that i

477
00:17:25,110 --> 00:17:22,720
said

478
00:17:27,429 --> 00:17:25,120
you cannot do that yeah this is some

479
00:17:29,590 --> 00:17:27,439
proteins do why don't you think and then

480
00:17:31,990 --> 00:17:29,600
we just discussing them they want to do

481
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:32,000
veterinary science when they leave and

482
00:17:35,990 --> 00:17:34,320
they love want to

483
00:17:37,669 --> 00:17:36,000
work with chickens or cats you are kind

484
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:37,679
of asking probe them what animals they

485
00:17:41,190 --> 00:17:39,679
have and then you kind of develop a

486
00:17:42,470 --> 00:17:41,200
project from that from what they're

487
00:17:43,990 --> 00:17:42,480
interested in

488
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:44,000
but

489
00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:47,600
you then the thing is you then gotta

490
00:17:52,150 --> 00:17:50,240
the research plan is huge you have to

491
00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:52,160
kind of sit them down generally lunch

492
00:17:55,590 --> 00:17:54,000
time they come to you and i would

493
00:17:57,669 --> 00:17:55,600
probably get two students at lunchtime

494
00:17:59,590 --> 00:17:57,679
who would come and would work out a

495
00:18:01,669 --> 00:17:59,600
research plan how you're going to do it

496
00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:01,679
in a controlled way what interesting

497
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:03,360
thing are you going to do now the

498
00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:04,880
problem is most of those interesting

499
00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:07,440
things you can't

500
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:08,480
just

501
00:18:12,390 --> 00:18:10,400
come up with initially

502
00:18:14,070 --> 00:18:12,400
the best is just to get to start on the

503
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:14,080
project just start and you'll probably

504
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:16,640
find as you get going interesting side

505
00:18:20,950 --> 00:18:18,400
points will come up and then you can

506
00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:20,960
kind of may change the the direction of

507
00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:23,200
your project

508
00:18:27,029 --> 00:18:25,120
but obviously the big thing is the

509
00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:27,039
teacher needs to spend time with the

510
00:18:30,950 --> 00:18:28,559
student

511
00:18:32,710 --> 00:18:30,960
you have to it's a personal thing and

512
00:18:35,669 --> 00:18:32,720
why i like science projects is that i

513
00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:35,679
actually get to have a you know relate

514
00:18:38,789 --> 00:18:38,000
to the students in a one-to-one

515
00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:38,799
way

516
00:18:43,750 --> 00:18:41,120
it's not just the teacher at the front

517
00:18:47,110 --> 00:18:43,760
passing on their knowledge of a topic

518
00:18:48,870 --> 00:18:47,120
you also later on then go and personally

519
00:18:50,390 --> 00:18:48,880
work with students and they really

520
00:18:52,070 --> 00:18:50,400
respond to that

521
00:18:54,549 --> 00:18:52,080
even the little kids

522
00:18:57,190 --> 00:18:54,559
and and i just have to give time

523
00:19:00,150 --> 00:18:57,200
there's no really other way i can't see

524
00:19:01,510 --> 00:19:00,160
so you think that um it seems reasonable

525
00:19:03,590 --> 00:19:01,520
enough do you think that it's that

526
00:19:05,510 --> 00:19:03,600
one-on-one that also affects the

527
00:19:07,990 --> 00:19:05,520
enthusiasm of the students that that

528
00:19:11,350 --> 00:19:08,000
ability to work with no

529
00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:11,360
no the enthusiasm is

530
00:19:13,909 --> 00:19:12,480
you've got to try to generate the

531
00:19:16,549 --> 00:19:13,919
enthusiasm

532
00:19:18,789 --> 00:19:16,559
in the class to start with

533
00:19:20,950 --> 00:19:18,799
and usually

534
00:19:23,190 --> 00:19:20,960
another way of getting enthusiasm kids

535
00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:23,200
love publicity and media they love to be

536
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:25,679
on the newspaper and the tv for instance

537
00:19:29,350 --> 00:19:27,200
just behind you

538
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:29,360
these are all newspapers which have

539
00:19:35,830 --> 00:19:33,600
students from our school um in different

540
00:19:38,070 --> 00:19:35,840
future featured in different articles

541
00:19:39,750 --> 00:19:38,080
some of the magazines i must point out

542
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:39,760
that we're talking probably you know in

543
00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:42,480
excess of 100 well in excess of 100

544
00:19:45,669 --> 00:19:44,080
people yeah well some of them are

545
00:19:47,830 --> 00:19:45,679
multiple copies but generally i would

546
00:19:52,150 --> 00:19:47,840
have over 100 different articles

547
00:19:54,710 --> 00:19:52,160
um of students um in the in the press

548
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:54,720
so they get excited a lot of radio

549
00:19:59,190 --> 00:19:56,480
interviews some one of our students was

550
00:20:01,669 --> 00:19:59,200
interviewed by pm on the abc last year

551
00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:01,679
and some so a lot of them on

552
00:20:05,110 --> 00:20:03,280
different different stations depending

553
00:20:09,270 --> 00:20:05,120
on what their project's about

554
00:20:11,350 --> 00:20:09,280
and i try to enthuse students by

555
00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:11,360
giving the opportunity to be to have

556
00:20:17,909 --> 00:20:16,080
their work shown to the public you know

557
00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:17,919
that's a big factor

558
00:20:21,110 --> 00:20:19,440
how would a school that doesn't have

559
00:20:23,029 --> 00:20:21,120
that history that you have that is able

560
00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:23,039
to show projects that have been known in

561
00:20:27,510 --> 00:20:25,520
the past how would a school get just

562
00:20:30,630 --> 00:20:27,520
starting or physically trying to get

563
00:20:32,950 --> 00:20:30,640
into that okay i'll give an example

564
00:20:35,909 --> 00:20:32,960
i am currently involved in a

565
00:20:37,909 --> 00:20:35,919
my science program which is schools it's

566
00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:37,919
a department of education program for

567
00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:40,080
schools in the western sydney

568
00:20:43,750 --> 00:20:42,080
and they have

569
00:20:46,310 --> 00:20:43,760
they want mentors to come into these

570
00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:46,320
schools to show them to help them kids

571
00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:48,640
with their science projects

572
00:20:50,549 --> 00:20:49,520
and

573
00:20:54,390 --> 00:20:50,559
so

574
00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:54,400
there was

575
00:20:58,230 --> 00:20:56,320
no background in science no background

576
00:20:59,830 --> 00:20:58,240
in anything of this and i've been there

577
00:21:01,830 --> 00:20:59,840
this is my fourth year i've been each

578
00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:01,840
year each year there

579
00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:03,120
development

580
00:21:05,669 --> 00:21:03,919
and

581
00:21:08,950 --> 00:21:05,679
they would do a pro they all do projects

582
00:21:11,510 --> 00:21:08,960
they'll do a poster they have a fair

583
00:21:13,590 --> 00:21:11,520
but didn't get anywhere

584
00:21:15,750 --> 00:21:13,600
very similar to how we started

585
00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:15,760
because i didn't know what was needed i

586
00:21:21,669 --> 00:21:19,360
didn't have any guy to go by

587
00:21:23,350 --> 00:21:21,679
and so this the second year

588
00:21:25,430 --> 00:21:23,360
i said to the club the teacher i was

589
00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:25,440
working with

590
00:21:30,870 --> 00:21:28,320
would you mind if we

591
00:21:32,630 --> 00:21:30,880
spent a bit more time on

592
00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:32,640
you know just pick one project let's

593
00:21:36,630 --> 00:21:34,240
spend a bit more time so you have a

594
00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:36,640
model for the rest of your class

595
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:39,360
and so we did with one project we didn't

596
00:21:44,310 --> 00:21:41,440
spend much time but they looked at

597
00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:44,320
us on long jumps and whether when you

598
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:46,880
have most long kids doing long jump look

599
00:21:51,029 --> 00:21:48,880
at the sand and the whole body goes

600
00:21:52,870 --> 00:21:51,039
downwards but if you look straight ahead

601
00:21:54,070 --> 00:21:52,880
how much extra distance can you get by

602
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:54,080
just looking straight ahead as you're

603
00:21:58,230 --> 00:21:56,400
supposed to do and then look at the sand

604
00:22:00,149 --> 00:21:58,240
so i said well what you need to do is

605
00:22:02,149 --> 00:22:00,159
firstly see is how much of a problem

606
00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:02,159
that is so they had their athletic

607
00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:04,320
carnival and they found that about 97

608
00:22:08,789 --> 00:22:06,720
percent of kids looked at the sand

609
00:22:10,630 --> 00:22:08,799
and only two i think three kids didn't

610
00:22:12,470 --> 00:22:10,640
and they were one the some of the some

611
00:22:13,669 --> 00:22:12,480
of the place getters

612
00:22:15,590 --> 00:22:13,679
obviously so

613
00:22:17,350 --> 00:22:15,600
they did this project and that so we had

614
00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:17,360
a model and i and they would have

615
00:22:20,950 --> 00:22:18,640
emailed

616
00:22:22,870 --> 00:22:20,960
their tables and i would have sent back

617
00:22:24,230 --> 00:22:22,880
you know well you should do this and

618
00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:24,240
there's a good communication with the

619
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:27,280
teacher and so they now have a model of

620
00:22:31,590 --> 00:22:29,200
a good project this project that went on

621
00:22:32,549 --> 00:22:31,600
to be one of the top bhp national

622
00:22:34,950 --> 00:22:32,559
winners

623
00:22:36,470 --> 00:22:34,960
um it wasn't a big project it was i

624
00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:36,480
would say is very small wasn't it it

625
00:22:42,310 --> 00:22:38,080
doesn't be huge

626
00:22:43,669 --> 00:22:42,320
but it was a good method methodology

627
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:43,679
and

628
00:22:49,190 --> 00:22:48,000
for their school to use i said to the i

629
00:22:51,990 --> 00:22:49,200
said to

630
00:22:56,230 --> 00:22:52,000
that teacher you now need to either get

631
00:22:58,549 --> 00:22:56,240
it as a pdf document so all kids can

632
00:23:00,549 --> 00:22:58,559
have a look at it and

633
00:23:01,750 --> 00:23:00,559
and use it as a benchmark and say you

634
00:23:03,430 --> 00:23:01,760
know what to do

635
00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:03,440
because unless they have that

636
00:23:06,789 --> 00:23:05,120
they'll just continue every year just

637
00:23:09,029 --> 00:23:06,799
have projects with look good but don't

638
00:23:11,110 --> 00:23:09,039
go don't aren't the same level as the

639
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:11,120
top level projects

640
00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:13,679
so but now they have that

641
00:23:17,909 --> 00:23:16,320
um they're now increasing the all

642
00:23:20,789 --> 00:23:17,919
classes from year three to year six are

643
00:23:24,070 --> 00:23:20,799
now doing science projects this year um

644
00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:24,080
they have resmed a company nearby at

645
00:23:28,549 --> 00:23:26,320
bella vista coming to their school and

646
00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:28,559
they have nearly 20 scientists

647
00:23:32,549 --> 00:23:30,960
working as mentors in that school

648
00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:32,559
and it's totally changed that school

649
00:23:37,350 --> 00:23:36,000
around now you obviously value the

650
00:23:38,950 --> 00:23:37,360
science competitions of various kinds of

651
00:23:40,789 --> 00:23:38,960
science awards and science competitions

652
00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:40,799
can you tell me why that is what do you

653
00:23:50,230 --> 00:23:47,590
we don't just

654
00:23:53,830 --> 00:23:50,240
enter a science competition just to win

655
00:23:58,710 --> 00:23:56,230
schools have a lot of different

656
00:24:00,470 --> 00:23:58,720
extracurricular stuff they can do like

657
00:24:03,029 --> 00:24:00,480
as a science teacher i could enter my

658
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:03,039
students into the science olympiads i

659
00:24:07,430 --> 00:24:05,360
could do eureka awards there's a whole

660
00:24:08,710 --> 00:24:07,440
series awards you can solo card

661
00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:08,720
challenges

662
00:24:12,870 --> 00:24:09,440
so

663
00:24:15,110 --> 00:24:12,880
pick i just we just happened to pick the

664
00:24:17,830 --> 00:24:15,120
young sciences awards because we thought

665
00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:17,840
that if we get all kids doing science

666
00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:19,760
projects we're actually setting them up

667
00:24:26,789 --> 00:24:24,710
and it's not just something they will

668
00:24:28,470 --> 00:24:26,799
just do now and forget about that

669
00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:28,480
they're learning skills they can build

670
00:24:34,070 --> 00:24:30,840
on the next year they can develop their

671
00:24:35,990 --> 00:24:34,080
projects and because we're a k-12 school

672
00:24:39,350 --> 00:24:36,000
if we can get kids in our preparatory

673
00:24:41,350 --> 00:24:39,360
school doing a project

674
00:24:44,230 --> 00:24:41,360
when they do it again two years time

675
00:24:45,510 --> 00:24:44,240
it's the next level up and it continues

676
00:24:46,630 --> 00:24:45,520
year to year

677
00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:46,640
and

678
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:50,000
curriculum so we have students who

679
00:24:53,990 --> 00:24:51,360
didn't win anything for the first six

680
00:24:56,230 --> 00:24:54,000
years of their science projects now

681
00:24:58,630 --> 00:24:56,240
top projects just because

682
00:25:01,590 --> 00:24:58,640
they have built on their previous

683
00:25:02,870 --> 00:25:01,600
skills and now they are you know tops

684
00:25:05,110 --> 00:25:02,880
their top skills in australia you can

685
00:25:06,310 --> 00:25:05,120
say do you think the competition is the

686
00:25:08,149 --> 00:25:06,320
fact that there is an award a

687
00:25:11,029 --> 00:25:08,159
competition a medal

688
00:25:13,510 --> 00:25:11,039
a place in in in the on the winning

689
00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:13,520
panel uh winning um

690
00:25:16,310 --> 00:25:14,720
on the podium

691
00:25:17,669 --> 00:25:16,320
do you think that actually encourages

692
00:25:19,590 --> 00:25:17,679
students do you think they're definitely

693
00:25:21,909 --> 00:25:19,600
so there's a value in the competition

694
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:21,919
itself in terms of just the will to to

695
00:25:24,549 --> 00:25:23,760
win or to get something definitely

696
00:25:26,070 --> 00:25:24,559
yeah

697
00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:26,080
like every school has to do a research

698
00:25:30,149 --> 00:25:28,640
project but these projects such as young

699
00:25:31,669 --> 00:25:30,159
science awards

700
00:25:33,430 --> 00:25:31,679
they have

701
00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:33,440
like you can win a trip to america from

702
00:25:37,350 --> 00:25:35,440
year 9 to 12 for two students or you can

703
00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:37,360
win a couple hundred dollars if you win

704
00:25:41,029 --> 00:25:38,880
your category

705
00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:41,039
that does inspire students obviously

706
00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:42,720
there is a perception in certain parts

707
00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:44,400
of the public certainly in the

708
00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:45,840
non-religious parts of the public that

709
00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:47,520
there is a contradiction between science

710
00:25:51,110 --> 00:25:48,720
and religion

711
00:25:52,390 --> 00:25:51,120
now obviously here that contradiction

712
00:25:53,990 --> 00:25:52,400
does not exist because you're a

713
00:25:55,909 --> 00:25:54,000
religious school with a

714
00:25:57,350 --> 00:25:55,919
very successful science program do you

715
00:25:59,029 --> 00:25:57,360
want to talk about that

716
00:26:00,310 --> 00:25:59,039
i do agree in history there's been a big

717
00:26:01,350 --> 00:26:00,320
potential

718
00:26:02,470 --> 00:26:01,360
um

719
00:26:04,630 --> 00:26:02,480
conflict

720
00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:04,640
you can just look at the copernicus and

721
00:26:07,909 --> 00:26:06,080
all the time with the

722
00:26:08,710 --> 00:26:07,919
with the heliocentric and geocentric

723
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:08,720
view

724
00:26:14,870 --> 00:26:11,760
but um

725
00:26:17,110 --> 00:26:14,880
we don't in our science curriculum put a

726
00:26:20,310 --> 00:26:17,120
heavy on that conflict we would we have

727
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:20,320
a curriculum which we teach we if we if

728
00:26:25,430 --> 00:26:22,559
if evolution is there we'll teach the

729
00:26:28,470 --> 00:26:25,440
theory of evolution um

730
00:26:32,070 --> 00:26:28,480
we don't spend time giving necessarily

731
00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:32,080
our opinions how right or wrong it is we

732
00:26:35,430 --> 00:26:33,440
definitely if there's

733
00:26:37,750 --> 00:26:35,440
loophole if there's a gap in the

734
00:26:40,149 --> 00:26:37,760
evolution model would say that

735
00:26:41,750 --> 00:26:40,159
if there was if we talked about the we

736
00:26:42,870 --> 00:26:41,760
go back to the

737
00:26:44,230 --> 00:26:42,880
uh

738
00:26:47,590 --> 00:26:44,240
the earth being the center of the

739
00:26:49,430 --> 00:26:47,600
universe where the church was against

740
00:26:50,950 --> 00:26:49,440
science that's probably the biggest

741
00:26:53,909 --> 00:26:50,960
point in history where there was a

742
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:53,919
conflict and

743
00:26:57,669 --> 00:26:55,200
and

744
00:26:59,269 --> 00:26:57,679
would say yeah the church

745
00:27:04,149 --> 00:26:59,279
in the bible did talk about the sun

746
00:27:07,990 --> 00:27:06,070
you can still both were correct in the

747
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:08,000
way you know what i mean like uh the

748
00:27:12,470 --> 00:27:10,320
bible might or not have

749
00:27:14,789 --> 00:27:12,480
laid it out um

750
00:27:15,669 --> 00:27:14,799
this is how the universe is structured i

751
00:27:17,830 --> 00:27:15,679
mean

752
00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:17,840
it was to the people who was written to

753
00:27:22,710 --> 00:27:20,880
and the son obviously appears to go over

754
00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:22,720
but it's not saying that bob was wrong

755
00:27:25,830 --> 00:27:24,640
it's just that to the audience it was

756
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:25,840
written

757
00:27:30,950 --> 00:27:28,240
it was logical you're not gonna

758
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:30,960
so in terms of in a normal class

759
00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:32,640
situation

760
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:36,710
we

761
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:38,480
see that

762
00:27:43,029 --> 00:27:40,640
religion and science

763
00:27:44,230 --> 00:27:43,039
are not opposites we're very clear about

764
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:44,240
that

765
00:27:47,909 --> 00:27:46,480
um there may be ethical issues where

766
00:27:49,669 --> 00:27:47,919
science

767
00:27:51,350 --> 00:27:49,679
is kind of going the area which they

768
00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:51,360
shouldn't be

769
00:27:56,389 --> 00:27:53,200
it's going too far and it should leave

770
00:27:58,549 --> 00:27:56,399
things alone especially human life

771
00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:58,559
and obviously we'll not be happy with

772
00:28:01,750 --> 00:28:00,080
that

773
00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:01,760
but we don't see them as opposite

774
00:28:06,070 --> 00:28:04,080
conflicting views

775
00:28:08,470 --> 00:28:06,080
um maybe if i can just point out

776
00:28:10,149 --> 00:28:08,480
something you mentioned the sun the sun

777
00:28:11,990 --> 00:28:10,159
going around the earth as long as you do

778
00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:12,000
not treat the bible as a science book

779
00:28:17,269 --> 00:28:14,720
you do not expect it to actually explain

780
00:28:18,230 --> 00:28:17,279
the underlying scientific facts

781
00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:18,240
then i don't think that would

782
00:28:21,269 --> 00:28:19,679
necessarily be a problem dude it's good

783
00:28:23,110 --> 00:28:21,279
you know i don't think it's a problem

784
00:28:24,950 --> 00:28:23,120
not at all

785
00:28:26,549 --> 00:28:24,960
like you get

786
00:28:29,510 --> 00:28:26,559
like this morning on the news report

787
00:28:31,909 --> 00:28:29,520
they talk about the permafrost

788
00:28:34,789 --> 00:28:31,919
that methane gas is leaking through the

789
00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:34,799
permafrost and that's another uh example

790
00:28:41,269 --> 00:28:35,760
of

791
00:28:43,830 --> 00:28:41,279
made a phrase that said this has been

792
00:28:45,669 --> 00:28:43,840
the highest level of methane

793
00:28:47,110 --> 00:28:45,679
in antarctica for the last 60 million

794
00:28:49,669 --> 00:28:47,120
years

795
00:28:51,590 --> 00:28:49,679
and when i heard that i often have a

796
00:28:53,669 --> 00:28:51,600
question how they know

797
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:53,679
they how can they say that what about in

798
00:28:58,549 --> 00:28:56,320
the idea of an ice age

799
00:29:00,310 --> 00:28:58,559
that is where i would if i had that

800
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:00,320
situation a class where you watch a

801
00:29:04,549 --> 00:29:02,480
video and they make a comment

802
00:29:07,190 --> 00:29:04,559
which has no real

803
00:29:09,110 --> 00:29:07,200
evidence or measurement to go with it i

804
00:29:11,909 --> 00:29:09,120
say you need to be careful

805
00:29:15,269 --> 00:29:11,919
what you hear when those things are said

806
00:29:17,190 --> 00:29:15,279
and so we're also teaching students

807
00:29:18,310 --> 00:29:17,200
to discriminate

808
00:29:20,470 --> 00:29:18,320
uh

809
00:29:22,310 --> 00:29:20,480
back from possible facts you know what i

810
00:29:24,070 --> 00:29:22,320
mean thank you very much to your god for

811
00:29:34,230 --> 00:29:24,080
being with me on the skeptics that thank

812
00:29:39,350 --> 00:29:36,310
this is eugenie scott national center

813
00:29:43,350 --> 00:29:39,360
for science education you can find us at

814
00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:45,110
come see us if you want to know anything

815
00:29:49,909 --> 00:29:47,360
about the creationism and evolution

816
00:29:51,830 --> 00:29:49,919
conflict in the united states or

817
00:29:53,750 --> 00:29:51,840
more is the pity internationally these

818
00:29:56,950 --> 00:29:53,760
days we are a clearinghouse for

819
00:29:58,870 --> 00:29:56,960
information on this vexing but certainly

820
00:30:03,909 --> 00:29:58,880
very interesting problem

821
00:30:07,750 --> 00:30:05,830
can't get enough of euphoria with one in

822
00:30:09,110 --> 00:30:07,760
a million here in nfl it's after the six

823
00:30:12,549 --> 00:30:09,120
o'clock mark here on thursday which

824
00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:12,559
means it is time for the skeptic tank

825
00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:14,640
good evening skeptics good evening good

826
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:17,200
evening i don't believe it

827
00:30:22,870 --> 00:30:19,440
oh that's a good one i've we've had in

828
00:30:25,190 --> 00:30:22,880
the studio a very well renowned

829
00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:25,200
paleontologist dr paul willis good

830
00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:27,360
afternoon how are you very good and of

831
00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:29,679
course our regular skeptic dude mr

832
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:31,520
richard saunders hello steph how you

833
00:30:35,669 --> 00:30:33,440
doing out there really well that's good

834
00:30:38,149 --> 00:30:35,679
nice of you to both drop into the studio

835
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:38,159
and what do we have in store tonight

836
00:30:42,389 --> 00:30:40,559
with the skeptic tank well uh tonight

837
00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:42,399
we're going to be looking at the subject

838
00:30:47,669 --> 00:30:45,600
of evolution and creationism ah

839
00:30:52,389 --> 00:30:47,679
that's always a very very oh bit of a

840
00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:53,830
but it is it is

841
00:30:58,230 --> 00:30:55,520
it's a debate that was one in science

842
00:30:59,029 --> 00:30:58,240
150 years ago and people still arguing

843
00:31:01,110 --> 00:30:59,039
well

844
00:31:03,350 --> 00:31:01,120
no no the people that

845
00:31:06,149 --> 00:31:03,360
want to argue it are religious

846
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:06,159
fundamentalists who find it offensive

847
00:31:10,070 --> 00:31:08,159
when reality clashes with their beliefs

848
00:31:12,310 --> 00:31:10,080
right if that hasn't got some people's

849
00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:12,320
backs up but i don't know

850
00:31:16,389 --> 00:31:14,080
we can always try a little bit harder

851
00:31:18,310 --> 00:31:16,399
yeah well essentially the debate was 150

852
00:31:20,710 --> 00:31:18,320
years ago when charles darwin put out

853
00:31:22,389 --> 00:31:20,720
every origin of the species right but

854
00:31:23,909 --> 00:31:22,399
even aren't some scientists say

855
00:31:25,350 --> 00:31:23,919
something to say oh no no that's not

856
00:31:27,190 --> 00:31:25,360
even that might not be true and then

857
00:31:28,710 --> 00:31:27,200
clouding the issue again

858
00:31:31,350 --> 00:31:28,720
there there is an interesting book that

859
00:31:34,149 --> 00:31:31,360
came out a couple years ago called uh in

860
00:31:36,789 --> 00:31:34,159
six days 50 scientists explain why they

861
00:31:37,909 --> 00:31:36,799
accept creationism and if you read that

862
00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:37,919
book there's a couple of things to

863
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:39,600
notice first of all most of them are not

864
00:31:43,509 --> 00:31:41,039
biologists they don't actually

865
00:31:45,190 --> 00:31:43,519
understand evolution yeah and that if

866
00:31:46,870 --> 00:31:45,200
you understand evolution and

867
00:31:48,310 --> 00:31:46,880
read it you it's quite obvious that they

868
00:31:49,590 --> 00:31:48,320
don't really understand what's going on

869
00:31:51,590 --> 00:31:49,600
the other thing is is that they're all

870
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:51,600
religious testimonials yeah they're all

871
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:54,320
people who uh are working as scientists

872
00:31:59,269 --> 00:31:56,240
in various areas of science right

873
00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:59,279
computing or hydraulics or things but

874
00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:00,960
the thing is is what they've sold

875
00:32:05,590 --> 00:32:02,880
themselves on is is

876
00:32:08,789 --> 00:32:05,600
their belief in the bible will not allow

877
00:32:11,509 --> 00:32:08,799
them to uh to do anything else

878
00:32:13,110 --> 00:32:11,519
so they know nothing about about about

879
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:13,120
evolution at all but they're still

880
00:32:16,950 --> 00:32:14,399
claiming that they do

881
00:32:20,389 --> 00:32:16,960
which well yeah yeah that's probably in

882
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:20,399
a nutshell yeah okay case in their case

883
00:32:22,630 --> 00:32:21,120
oh

884
00:32:24,870 --> 00:32:22,640
we're getting in there

885
00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:24,880
tonight folks yes indeed and you as a

886
00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:27,440
paleontologist you were able to to show

887
00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:29,200
lots of compelling evidence of course

888
00:32:33,269 --> 00:32:31,600
that over billions of years lots of

889
00:32:34,710 --> 00:32:33,279
things happen with the different life

890
00:32:36,389 --> 00:32:34,720
forms on the planet it is one of the

891
00:32:39,269 --> 00:32:36,399
problems in arguing

892
00:32:41,110 --> 00:32:39,279
against creationists and that is that

893
00:32:43,430 --> 00:32:41,120
in order to actually understand the

894
00:32:45,590 --> 00:32:43,440
evidence against them

895
00:32:47,909 --> 00:32:45,600
i mean i spent like 12 years at

896
00:32:50,710 --> 00:32:47,919
university doing an undergraduate degree

897
00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:50,720
and then a phd going out there splitting

898
00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:52,640
rocks looking at the at the evidence

899
00:32:56,470 --> 00:32:54,880
firsthand the actual evidence i don't

900
00:32:58,310 --> 00:32:56,480
like to be able to have to turn around

901
00:32:59,110 --> 00:32:58,320
to people and say well look take it from

902
00:33:01,110 --> 00:32:59,120
me

903
00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:01,120
but uh but the thing is is that you know

904
00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:04,000
unless you've got a fair grasp on on the

905
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:06,240
the basic science behind it which does

906
00:33:08,470 --> 00:33:06,960
take

907
00:33:10,630 --> 00:33:08,480
a university degree to get under your

908
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:10,640
belt and it can all seem a bit

909
00:33:15,269 --> 00:33:12,880
mystifying yeah well i think some people

910
00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:15,279
may have a hard time comprehending the

911
00:33:19,990 --> 00:33:18,000
amount of time in the involved in

912
00:33:22,470 --> 00:33:20,000
evolution of our of where we are right

913
00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:22,480
now that millions or even billions of

914
00:33:26,230 --> 00:33:24,799
dollars yes so do i i have i have

915
00:33:27,669 --> 00:33:26,240
immense problems coming in terms of

916
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:27,679
those lengths of sites so why not

917
00:33:31,669 --> 00:33:30,000
conveniently just make it seven days

918
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:31,679
well the thing is is that i have a

919
00:33:36,149 --> 00:33:33,840
greater greater ease of disbelieving the

920
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:36,159
claim to worlds only say six to ten

921
00:33:39,190 --> 00:33:38,000
thousand years old yeah for instance

922
00:33:41,190 --> 00:33:39,200
where we're sitting right here in the

923
00:33:43,590 --> 00:33:41,200
middle of sydney okay we're sitting on

924
00:33:46,230 --> 00:33:43,600
top of about two kilometers of sandstone

925
00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:46,240
and if you look at that sandstone you

926
00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:47,760
can work out how it was laid down it was

927
00:33:51,830 --> 00:33:49,760
laid down in a river restaurant and it

928
00:33:55,590 --> 00:33:51,840
was laid down at a rate that was

929
00:33:57,269 --> 00:33:55,600
probably less than a meter every decade

930
00:33:59,110 --> 00:33:57,279
right across the whole basin in fact

931
00:34:01,269 --> 00:33:59,120
probably less than a meter every 100

932
00:34:03,590 --> 00:34:01,279
years so you've got you know

933
00:34:06,310 --> 00:34:03,600
many many thousands of years just in

934
00:34:08,389 --> 00:34:06,320
that uh that two kilometers of sandstone

935
00:34:11,349 --> 00:34:08,399
underneath that there's coal in order to

936
00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:11,359
make coal these coal beds uh are only

937
00:34:15,750 --> 00:34:13,200
now a few feet thick but we know in

938
00:34:18,149 --> 00:34:15,760
order to make that coal you need to have

939
00:34:19,829 --> 00:34:18,159
uh swamps that were hundreds of feet

940
00:34:21,190 --> 00:34:19,839
thick that have been compressed yeah how

941
00:34:22,550 --> 00:34:21,200
long does it take to make that

942
00:34:25,030 --> 00:34:22,560
underneath that there are rocks that

943
00:34:27,589 --> 00:34:25,040
have been folded up and have got life or

944
00:34:29,109 --> 00:34:27,599
evidence of sea life folded up inside

945
00:34:31,190 --> 00:34:29,119
them yeah so phenomenal isn't it it

946
00:34:33,030 --> 00:34:31,200
doesn't take long to realize you might

947
00:34:34,869 --> 00:34:33,040
not be able to come to terms with a

948
00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:34,879
million years with 10 million years with

949
00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:36,960
100 million years but it doesn't take

950
00:34:41,669 --> 00:34:39,040
long to realize that the earth is a very

951
00:34:45,030 --> 00:34:41,679
old place and stuff was happening way

952
00:34:47,109 --> 00:34:45,040
back most definitely yes well well well

953
00:34:49,669 --> 00:34:47,119
well we're getting into it now we have a

954
00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:49,679
scientist in the room yes we do i'm

955
00:34:52,950 --> 00:34:50,800
going to play in a little song it's

956
00:34:54,069 --> 00:34:52,960
billy piper she's young billy piper's

957
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:54,079
only young she's only been around for

958
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:57,119
what six or seven years i think

959
00:35:01,670 --> 00:34:59,760
i don't think she's nursery rhymes

960
00:35:03,190 --> 00:35:01,680
it's getting close it's something deep

961
00:35:04,950 --> 00:35:03,200
inside

962
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:04,960
that's not something young person would

963
00:35:15,670 --> 00:35:06,240
be talking about

964
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:17,190
we're back into the skeptic tank we're

965
00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:20,160
paul willis doctor paul willis and dr

966
00:35:23,670 --> 00:35:22,240
richard saunders oh thank you i'm just

967
00:35:25,430 --> 00:35:23,680
giving you an honorary doctor to be

968
00:35:26,870 --> 00:35:25,440
promoted from that fm the hell why don't

969
00:35:28,710 --> 00:35:26,880
we give one to everyone who's listening

970
00:35:30,069 --> 00:35:28,720
today consider yourself doctors folks

971
00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:30,079
ring up we'll give you an honorary

972
00:35:35,990 --> 00:35:32,160
doctorate at the nfl a doctor in the net

973
00:35:37,430 --> 00:35:36,000
ephemology um now uh paul you you've uh

974
00:35:39,270 --> 00:35:37,440
you've obviously had a bit of fun over

975
00:35:41,510 --> 00:35:39,280
the years with you with the the

976
00:35:42,470 --> 00:35:41,520
creationists they've been uh trying to

977
00:35:44,069 --> 00:35:42,480
challenge

978
00:35:47,030 --> 00:35:44,079
all the evidence that you've been

979
00:35:48,230 --> 00:35:47,040
digging up over the last 12 15 20 the

980
00:35:49,750 --> 00:35:48,240
thing is they don't actually come

981
00:35:53,109 --> 00:35:49,760
directly out and want to challenge you

982
00:35:54,710 --> 00:35:53,119
personally no um because it would be

983
00:35:55,829 --> 00:35:54,720
like pulling wings off of a fly to

984
00:35:59,109 --> 00:35:55,839
respond

985
00:36:00,950 --> 00:35:59,119
um the thing is is that creationists do

986
00:36:02,710 --> 00:36:00,960
have a very well organized system

987
00:36:04,550 --> 00:36:02,720
whereby they go around to country

988
00:36:07,109 --> 00:36:04,560
schools and country

989
00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:07,119
uh uh churches and and put on these

990
00:36:11,589 --> 00:36:08,960
little seminars there's some regular

991
00:36:13,829 --> 00:36:11,599
features of them one of them will be the

992
00:36:15,829 --> 00:36:13,839
most outstanding one to me is that they

993
00:36:17,270 --> 00:36:15,839
generally run out of time and so they

994
00:36:18,790 --> 00:36:17,280
can't have any questions at the end

995
00:36:19,750 --> 00:36:18,800
right uh

996
00:36:21,109 --> 00:36:19,760
which is

997
00:36:22,630 --> 00:36:21,119
fortunate for them because you know

998
00:36:25,190 --> 00:36:22,640
there's so much of the stuff that can be

999
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:25,200
questioned sure now i have made a point

1000
00:36:30,150 --> 00:36:26,880
over the years of when one of these is

1001
00:36:31,349 --> 00:36:30,160
not too far from my home i i will gladly

1002
00:36:33,030 --> 00:36:31,359
go along

1003
00:36:36,230 --> 00:36:33,040
and make a point of challenging them and

1004
00:36:37,670 --> 00:36:36,240
forcing questions yeah um

1005
00:36:40,950 --> 00:36:37,680
the thing is

1006
00:36:42,630 --> 00:36:40,960
the whole creation evolution discussion

1007
00:36:44,310 --> 00:36:42,640
you've got to realize as an evolutionist

1008
00:36:45,910 --> 00:36:44,320
you're never going to win you're up

1009
00:36:48,790 --> 00:36:45,920
against people who are not interested

1010
00:36:51,349 --> 00:36:48,800
about what is right and what is wrong

1011
00:36:52,230 --> 00:36:51,359
it's a case of their whole

1012
00:36:54,550 --> 00:36:52,240
life

1013
00:36:56,470 --> 00:36:54,560
is unbounded is founded on a literal

1014
00:36:57,910 --> 00:36:56,480
interpretation of the bible and so

1015
00:36:58,870 --> 00:36:57,920
therefore they can't

1016
00:37:00,790 --> 00:36:58,880
begin

1017
00:37:02,950 --> 00:37:00,800
to conceive that anything else might be

1018
00:37:04,870 --> 00:37:02,960
correct no no they can't the thing is

1019
00:37:06,470 --> 00:37:04,880
what's important is is we're not out

1020
00:37:10,069 --> 00:37:06,480
there to

1021
00:37:13,750 --> 00:37:11,990
but if we don't challenge them they will

1022
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:13,760
win by default they will change other

1023
00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:15,520
people exactly yeah so they're actually

1024
00:37:20,950 --> 00:37:18,240
going around they're organizing seminars

1025
00:37:23,430 --> 00:37:20,960
they have the creation science bus which

1026
00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:23,440
tours australia really yeah um and this

1027
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:25,359
this goes to to

1028
00:37:29,270 --> 00:37:27,119
mainly to places outside the major

1029
00:37:31,109 --> 00:37:29,280
cities because most major cities have a

1030
00:37:32,950 --> 00:37:31,119
strong anti-creationist

1031
00:37:34,710 --> 00:37:32,960
movement such as myself

1032
00:37:37,349 --> 00:37:34,720
and people from the various museums who

1033
00:37:38,790 --> 00:37:37,359
will go out and and challenge them at

1034
00:37:41,190 --> 00:37:38,800
these sorts of events when they're

1035
00:37:43,589 --> 00:37:41,200
saying creation science so this they're

1036
00:37:46,069 --> 00:37:43,599
somehow saying that yes god did all this

1037
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:46,079
wonderful stuff in in in what a

1038
00:37:50,230 --> 00:37:48,400
different length of time

1039
00:37:52,390 --> 00:37:50,240
the term creation science

1040
00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:52,400
they're using the word science right and

1041
00:37:55,109 --> 00:37:53,920
straight away it gives people the wrong

1042
00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:55,119
impression like this stuff but they're

1043
00:37:58,390 --> 00:37:56,480
not talking about science at all not at

1044
00:38:00,230 --> 00:37:58,400
all no it's nothing to do with science

1045
00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:00,240
but they use science and they'll use

1046
00:38:04,790 --> 00:38:02,880
scientific terms yeah and and the the

1047
00:38:06,550 --> 00:38:04,800
the giveaway point is that when you

1048
00:38:07,990 --> 00:38:06,560
actually go along to a creationist

1049
00:38:09,990 --> 00:38:08,000
meeting

1050
00:38:11,990 --> 00:38:10,000
they don't talk about the evidence in

1051
00:38:13,829 --> 00:38:12,000
favor of creationism because there is

1052
00:38:15,589 --> 00:38:13,839
none there is no what they try and do is

1053
00:38:17,589 --> 00:38:15,599
attack the evolution it's created

1054
00:38:19,109 --> 00:38:17,599
evolution yeah and they're not really

1055
00:38:21,670 --> 00:38:19,119
just attacking evolution they're taking

1056
00:38:23,270 --> 00:38:21,680
science they will attack geology which

1057
00:38:25,349 --> 00:38:23,280
has really got nothing to do with

1058
00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:25,359
evolution but they will attack geology

1059
00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:28,240
because uh it contradicts their

1060
00:38:31,750 --> 00:38:30,320
worldview they attack physics they say

1061
00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:31,760
things like the speed of light is

1062
00:38:36,790 --> 00:38:34,480
slowing down well hang on no it's one of

1063
00:38:38,150 --> 00:38:36,800
the great constants of the universe

1064
00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:38,160
they will say that the secondary

1065
00:38:42,550 --> 00:38:40,640
thermodynamics uh precludes evolution

1066
00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:42,560
but they obviously don't understand some

1067
00:38:46,790 --> 00:38:45,040
basic physics such as the second the

1068
00:38:48,230 --> 00:38:46,800
nights i don't want to get into the

1069
00:38:49,670 --> 00:38:48,240
nitty-gritty of the argument right but

1070
00:38:51,589 --> 00:38:49,680
that's what they're doing yeah they're

1071
00:38:53,589 --> 00:38:51,599
having a full-out onslaught against all

1072
00:38:55,670 --> 00:38:53,599
of science not just evolution

1073
00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:55,680
because i thought that some some uh

1074
00:38:59,190 --> 00:38:56,720
people that were taking the bible

1075
00:39:00,390 --> 00:38:59,200
literally were beginning to sort of turn

1076
00:39:02,790 --> 00:39:00,400
come around a little bit and start to

1077
00:39:04,630 --> 00:39:02,800
say well okay well it wasn't seven days

1078
00:39:05,670 --> 00:39:04,640
but the basic concept was it was created

1079
00:39:08,470 --> 00:39:05,680
by god

1080
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:08,480
there are reform uh what are they called

1081
00:39:14,069 --> 00:39:11,920
theistic evil uh theistic evolutionists

1082
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:14,079
they they believe god sort of directed

1083
00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:15,200
evolution

1084
00:39:17,910 --> 00:39:16,320
look

1085
00:39:20,710 --> 00:39:17,920
the thing is is that there's no evidence

1086
00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:20,720
for it no uh and science is based on

1087
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:22,720
evidence you know the reason why i

1088
00:39:26,470 --> 00:39:24,640
accept evolution as the there's the

1089
00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:26,480
explanation to why we're here on the

1090
00:39:30,630 --> 00:39:28,560
face of the earth is because when i go

1091
00:39:33,589 --> 00:39:30,640
out and i split the rocks open the

1092
00:39:35,990 --> 00:39:33,599
patterns that i see in the fossils match

1093
00:39:37,270 --> 00:39:36,000
what ought to be there if life has

1094
00:39:39,190 --> 00:39:37,280
changed through time sure over that

1095
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:39,200
period of time but still

1096
00:39:42,310 --> 00:39:41,280
changing through time

1097
00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:42,320
it's it's the only thing that's

1098
00:39:46,390 --> 00:39:44,240
determining those changes these

1099
00:39:48,069 --> 00:39:46,400
environmental things or is because

1100
00:39:50,550 --> 00:39:48,079
that's what you know

1101
00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:50,560
when you look at the actual design of

1102
00:39:54,790 --> 00:39:52,800
creatures we've got a skeleton it's like

1103
00:39:55,990 --> 00:39:54,800
my god that's that is pretty amazing

1104
00:39:57,750 --> 00:39:56,000
remember that what we're talking about

1105
00:40:00,150 --> 00:39:57,760
before in the time scales involved

1106
00:40:01,990 --> 00:40:00,160
that's right i mean

1107
00:40:03,990 --> 00:40:02,000
that's right there's another thing too

1108
00:40:05,589 --> 00:40:04,000
there if you take it backwards a step

1109
00:40:07,829 --> 00:40:05,599
and say okay so you know

1110
00:40:09,510 --> 00:40:07,839
perfect design and you sort of think

1111
00:40:10,870 --> 00:40:09,520
well maybe

1112
00:40:12,870 --> 00:40:10,880
there must be a god behind perfect

1113
00:40:14,390 --> 00:40:12,880
design the thing is is that most cases

1114
00:40:16,150 --> 00:40:14,400
that you put up from the biological

1115
00:40:17,750 --> 00:40:16,160
world of supposed perfect design really

1116
00:40:19,990 --> 00:40:17,760
ain't that good not perfect the human

1117
00:40:21,990 --> 00:40:20,000
eye is not a perfect way of seeing the

1118
00:40:24,310 --> 00:40:22,000
world if you were god and you would have

1119
00:40:25,990 --> 00:40:24,320
sit down from scratch and design an eye

1120
00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:26,000
you would not come up with the

1121
00:40:28,470 --> 00:40:26,880
design

1122
00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:28,480
and you probably wouldn't come up with

1123
00:40:31,270 --> 00:40:30,000
the millions of different creatures that

1124
00:40:33,109 --> 00:40:31,280
are on this earth all

1125
00:40:35,109 --> 00:40:33,119
eating each other and going

1126
00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:35,119
how come god is so fascinated with

1127
00:40:38,790 --> 00:40:36,880
beetles for god's sake

1128
00:40:40,710 --> 00:40:38,800
you know there's there are so many of

1129
00:40:42,390 --> 00:40:40,720
them so many ants as well i mean the

1130
00:40:44,550 --> 00:40:42,400
thing is is that there's no argument one

1131
00:40:46,710 --> 00:40:44,560
way or the other under creationism as to

1132
00:40:49,030 --> 00:40:46,720
why you would have millions of species

1133
00:40:51,109 --> 00:40:49,040
of ants and bacteria under evolution it

1134
00:40:52,470 --> 00:40:51,119
makes perfect sense that's right

1135
00:40:54,630 --> 00:40:52,480
so again

1136
00:40:56,309 --> 00:40:54,640
it's matching the pattern another a good

1137
00:40:58,309 --> 00:40:56,319
test if i can just button this one in

1138
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:58,319
because this one comes from paleontology

1139
00:41:01,750 --> 00:41:00,480
for a long time the creationist has been

1140
00:41:04,470 --> 00:41:01,760
saying well you know something as

1141
00:41:05,990 --> 00:41:04,480
complicated as a bird's wing like half a

1142
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:06,000
wings not going to work so you can't

1143
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:08,319
have half a bird's wing and so therefore

1144
00:41:11,829 --> 00:41:10,160
you evolutionists show me half a bird's

1145
00:41:13,670 --> 00:41:11,839
wing and i believe that they evolved

1146
00:41:16,870 --> 00:41:13,680
from something else yep

1147
00:41:32,710 --> 00:41:16,880
only in 1999 cordy tricks was found in

1148
00:41:36,870 --> 00:41:35,349
then they say well uh oh okay so no it's

1149
00:41:38,630 --> 00:41:36,880
a bird that's lost it's you know that's

1150
00:41:40,870 --> 00:41:38,640
this lost its wing that doesn't make any

1151
00:41:42,710 --> 00:41:40,880
sense either it's a mutant because like

1152
00:41:44,390 --> 00:41:42,720
it's also got a reptile's tail it's got

1153
00:41:45,829 --> 00:41:44,400
a reptile skull it's got all of these

1154
00:41:53,190 --> 00:41:45,839
dinosaur features if it didn't have the

1155
00:41:56,870 --> 00:41:55,190
comes your way the creation of science i

1156
00:41:58,790 --> 00:41:56,880
create creation the creation is the

1157
00:42:00,470 --> 00:41:58,800
creation let's not put the word science

1158
00:42:02,550 --> 00:42:00,480
in there let's just take that away from

1159
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:02,560
when the creationist dust comes your way

1160
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:04,720
get out your eggs and kill them yes and

1161
00:42:08,630 --> 00:42:06,960
say good tricks you swine

1162
00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:08,640
tricks

1163
00:42:14,470 --> 00:42:10,960
okay here's amber sunshine with running

1164
00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:14,480
song in the skeptic tank

1165
00:42:19,270 --> 00:42:17,440
the big exit with pj harvey here in nfm

1166
00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:19,280
stefan with it till seven o'clock and

1167
00:42:21,829 --> 00:42:20,560
we're in the middle of the skeptic tank

1168
00:42:23,829 --> 00:42:21,839
actually we're coming to the tail end of

1169
00:42:26,150 --> 00:42:23,839
it we're draining the tank

1170
00:42:28,630 --> 00:42:26,160
even as we speak we're shoving all sorts

1171
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:28,640
of things in it solvents to try and dry

1172
00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:30,400
it up and we haven't got one to go let

1173
00:42:32,870 --> 00:42:32,160
me plug the leak all right plug that

1174
00:42:34,550 --> 00:42:32,880
leak

1175
00:42:35,510 --> 00:42:34,560
actually yeah you can plug uh anything

1176
00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:35,520
you like

1177
00:42:39,430 --> 00:42:37,760
like the skeptics like the skeptics in

1178
00:42:41,270 --> 00:42:39,440
fact a couple of those people who would

1179
00:42:42,630 --> 00:42:41,280
like to plug the skeptics by the way i

1180
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:42,640
don't believe it

1181
00:42:48,230 --> 00:42:45,119
creationists

1182
00:42:49,670 --> 00:42:48,240
yeah look uh i work at the avc uh in the

1183
00:42:51,750 --> 00:42:49,680
science unit and if you want to check

1184
00:42:56,710 --> 00:42:51,760
out the sort of stuff we get up to go to

1185
00:43:00,630 --> 00:42:58,470
science and you'll find catalyst which

1186
00:43:02,150 --> 00:43:00,640
is a program i work on radio national

1187
00:43:04,150 --> 00:43:02,160
we've got the science show and earth

1188
00:43:06,150 --> 00:43:04,160
beaten all sorts of goodies on there if

1189
00:43:08,230 --> 00:43:06,160
you've got a scientific leaning it may

1190
00:43:10,309 --> 00:43:08,240
be a place to contact abc does some good

1191
00:43:19,589 --> 00:43:10,319
stuff with science don't they well thank

1192
00:43:23,990 --> 00:43:21,910
you just came back from a water divining

1193
00:43:25,670 --> 00:43:24,000
challenge i've had a big year i mean one

1194
00:43:27,990 --> 00:43:25,680
month i'm in india and next month i'm in

1195
00:43:30,390 --> 00:43:28,000
the high country of victoria a little

1196
00:43:31,990 --> 00:43:30,400
place called mit emitter one yeah a

1197
00:43:33,990 --> 00:43:32,000
wonderful little village but every year

1198
00:43:35,829 --> 00:43:34,000
they have the mighty mita musta which is

1199
00:43:36,710 --> 00:43:35,839
a big cattle and horse and wood chopping

1200
00:43:38,950 --> 00:43:36,720
show

1201
00:43:41,109 --> 00:43:38,960
yeehaw and the local skeptics put on a

1202
00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:41,119
great water divining or water dowsing

1203
00:43:46,230 --> 00:43:43,280
challenge okay so i went along this year

1204
00:43:47,589 --> 00:43:46,240
uh partly to have a look and i'm also uh

1205
00:43:50,230 --> 00:43:47,599
putting together a little documentary

1206
00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:50,240
about it all day wonderful and saw 30

1207
00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:52,160
water diviners running around the tennis

1208
00:43:55,430 --> 00:43:53,200
court with

1209
00:43:56,870 --> 00:43:55,440
rods and wands and pendulums and all

1210
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:56,880
sorts of things waving all around the

1211
00:43:59,670 --> 00:43:58,079
place

1212
00:44:01,270 --> 00:43:59,680
and they were trying to win a hundred

1213
00:44:02,950 --> 00:44:01,280
thousand dollars is that right there's a

1214
00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:02,960
hundred thousand dollars or in this case

1215
00:44:07,670 --> 00:44:04,000
i think it was a hundred and ten

1216
00:44:11,109 --> 00:44:10,309
but gst we're all skeptical about that

1217
00:44:13,510 --> 00:44:11,119
and

1218
00:44:15,109 --> 00:44:13,520
well sadly for the diviners although

1219
00:44:17,030 --> 00:44:15,119
beforehand they were predicting a

1220
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:17,040
hundred percent success rate oh

1221
00:44:21,109 --> 00:44:18,880
absolutely uh

1222
00:44:23,670 --> 00:44:21,119
strangely enough they their results at

1223
00:44:25,510 --> 00:44:23,680
the end of the day fully fell exactly as

1224
00:44:27,270 --> 00:44:25,520
per chance as per chance not much better

1225
00:44:30,309 --> 00:44:27,280
than tossing a coin so they completely

1226
00:44:32,309 --> 00:44:30,319
failed no water was divine well water

1227
00:44:35,190 --> 00:44:32,319
was divine but uh

1228
00:44:37,030 --> 00:44:35,200
overall they failed yes right

1229
00:44:38,950 --> 00:44:37,040
i guess that even though they they

1230
00:44:40,390 --> 00:44:38,960
probably like say they got one out of

1231
00:44:41,910 --> 00:44:40,400
three or something is that what what do

1232
00:44:44,950 --> 00:44:41,920
you do you had some empty there were

1233
00:44:47,190 --> 00:44:44,960
there were 25 uh milk uh plastic milk

1234
00:44:48,870 --> 00:44:47,200
bottles okay wrapped in paper and

1235
00:44:51,510 --> 00:44:48,880
plastic so you couldn't tell what was

1236
00:44:53,829 --> 00:44:51,520
inside right some had water and some had

1237
00:44:55,270 --> 00:44:53,839
sand okay and they ran around and their

1238
00:44:57,030 --> 00:44:55,280
rods would react and say right this

1239
00:44:58,470 --> 00:44:57,040
one's got water and their rods would not

1240
00:44:59,990 --> 00:44:58,480
react to the next one they say right

1241
00:45:01,030 --> 00:45:00,000
that's got sand

1242
00:45:02,550 --> 00:45:01,040
and

1243
00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:02,560
as i said the results at the end of the

1244
00:45:05,750 --> 00:45:04,000
day were like if you walked around and

1245
00:45:07,829 --> 00:45:05,760
tossed a coin over each one you'd get

1246
00:45:10,470 --> 00:45:07,839
similar results to the dowsers there you

1247
00:45:13,510 --> 00:45:10,480
go so all you dowsers out there forget

1248
00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:13,520
it drop it well give it up well until

1249
00:45:16,870 --> 00:45:14,880
they can come to us and actually

1250
00:45:18,950 --> 00:45:16,880
demonstrate there is such a thing as

1251
00:45:20,390 --> 00:45:18,960
dowsing for water or anything else we

1252
00:45:21,910 --> 00:45:20,400
just have to take it as another funny

1253
00:45:23,349 --> 00:45:21,920
claim yeah don't give it up just keep

1254
00:45:28,950 --> 00:45:23,359
coming back to the skeptic still

1255
00:45:31,990 --> 00:45:29,990
yeah

1256
00:45:33,510 --> 00:45:32,000
wonderful stuff and well dr paul's been

1257
00:45:35,349 --> 00:45:33,520
it's been absolutely fantastic having

1258
00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:35,359
you in having a real doctor a real

1259
00:45:41,510 --> 00:45:38,240
paleontologist someone that can

1260
00:45:44,309 --> 00:45:41,520
someone who's got a bone to pick with me

1261
00:45:45,589 --> 00:45:44,319
with a creationist

1262
00:45:46,710 --> 00:45:45,599
and that's all we have people out there

1263
00:45:50,069 --> 00:45:46,720
that if you see the creation of us

1264
00:45:51,990 --> 00:45:50,079
coming along just just stay away from it

1265
00:45:53,750 --> 00:45:52,000
questions

1266
00:45:55,349 --> 00:45:53,760
that is that's the half bird oh look

1267
00:45:56,630 --> 00:45:55,359
just for eggs

1268
00:45:58,710 --> 00:45:56,640
and don't forget what came first the

1269
00:46:01,349 --> 00:45:58,720
chicken or the egg egg laying reptiles

1270
00:46:03,109 --> 00:46:01,359
gave uh evolved into birds so definitely

1271
00:46:03,990 --> 00:46:03,119
the eggs came long before the chickens

1272
00:46:06,710 --> 00:46:04,000
right

1273
00:46:08,230 --> 00:46:06,720
there is the animal it's official okay

1274
00:46:10,069 --> 00:46:08,240
well thanks guys been a wonderful

1275
00:46:11,670 --> 00:46:10,079
skeptic tag this week we're back into

1276
00:46:13,430 --> 00:46:11,680
the music again for our listeners this

1277
00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:13,440
is st lunatic's batter up we'll see you

1278
00:46:27,030 --> 00:46:25,030
astronomy cast takes a fact-based

1279
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:27,040
journey through the cosmos as it offers

1280
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:28,800
listeners weekly discussions on

1281
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:31,440
astronomical topics ranging from planets

1282
00:46:35,270 --> 00:46:32,800
to cosmology

1283
00:46:37,270 --> 00:46:35,280
hosted by fraser kane of universe today

1284
00:46:39,589 --> 00:46:37,280
and myself dr pamela gay of southern

1285
00:46:41,349 --> 00:46:39,599
illinois university edwardsville this

1286
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:41,359
show brings the questions of an avid

1287
00:46:45,829 --> 00:46:43,200
astronomy lover directly to an

1288
00:46:47,670 --> 00:46:45,839
astronomer together fraser and i explore

1289
00:46:49,510 --> 00:46:47,680
what is known and being discovered about

1290
00:46:51,109 --> 00:46:49,520
the universe around us

1291
00:46:53,109 --> 00:46:51,119
join us each week as we take a

1292
00:47:09,829 --> 00:46:53,119
fact-based journey through the cosmos at

1293
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:11,910
thank you for listening to this episode

1294
00:47:16,309 --> 00:47:14,160
of the skeptic zone

1295
00:47:18,150 --> 00:47:16,319
next week i hope we have our think tank

1296
00:47:20,630 --> 00:47:18,160
back again

1297
00:47:22,870 --> 00:47:20,640
and thank you also very much to those

1298
00:47:25,510 --> 00:47:22,880
people who subscribe or donate to the

1299
00:47:27,670 --> 00:47:25,520
skeptic zone to help us keep the show

1300
00:47:29,349 --> 00:47:27,680
online and hopefully

1301
00:47:31,190 --> 00:47:29,359
entertaining

1302
00:47:33,270 --> 00:47:31,200
so until our next episode this is

1303
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:33,280
richard saunders signing off

1304
00:47:42,069 --> 00:47:40,069
you've been listening to the skeptic

1305
00:47:45,430 --> 00:47:42,079
zone visit our website at